What Class of cars is lacking in North America?

"Luc - The Acadian Oppo" (luc5) 05/18/2014 at 17:00 • Filed to: kei cars

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I love Kei Cars. I have an especially strong sweet spot for the the Kei Vans.

If you are not familiar with Kei cars, they are a special class of car sold only in Japan they are limited to a 660cc engine with a maximum output of 63hp they are also dimensionally limited to 3.4M (11.2ft) in length, 1.48m (4.9ft) in width, and 2m (6.6ft) in height.

Because regulations only restrict physical size and engine displacement (and latterly outright power), manufacturers have been able to introduce many advanced technologies to the class. As a result, kei cars are often available with forced induction engines, front-, rear- and four-wheel drive, air conditioning, GPS and many other features.

Because of their smaller size it puts them in the "light car" class rather than the more common "passenger car" class which means that they have lower sales tax(3% vs 5%),lower insurance cost(approx 30% less) and lower road tax.

There is Currently only 2 small-ish passenger vans for sale in North America.

The least inexpensive being the Mazda5 with a starting price of $21,995CAD.

Followed by the Ford Transit Connect Wagon with a Starting Price of $28,499CAD

Heck at that price you would be way better off to spend an extra $1500 and get the fantastic Honda Odyssey @ $29,999 which is much bigger and IMO much nicer.

Would there be a Market for small vans in North America?

Maybe with around a $15000 starting price perhaps?

something along the lines of a Suzuki Wagon R?

or a Daihatsu move?

or my personal favorite the Honda N Box?

I think the small vans need to make a comeback. Let me know if you agree and if not let me know what you think needs to make comeback.

Please keep the utes comments to a minimum we all know those need to comeback pronto!

jkm7680 > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 05/18/2014 at 16:05

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In my opinion, they just wouldn't sell. The market is nearly non existent for them in America. There's simple compacts, like the Mazda 2 and then there's the slightly larger vans. For the same price as one of these, a more spacey van could be bought. Kids, or not.

IDROVEAPICKUPTRUCK > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 05/18/2014 at 16:07

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Small pickup trucks!

George Costanza > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 05/18/2014 at 16:10

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They would never sell in North America. Just won't. The cities are different, family sizes are different, lifestyles are different. People want a certain sized seats, trunk space etc. and these cars don't have them.

AM3R > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 05/18/2014 at 16:11

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WAGONS. REAL WAGONS NOT WEIRD LOOKING CROSSOVERS.

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > jkm7680 05/18/2014 at 16:14

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What van can you buy for the same price as one of these? the cheapest is the Mazda5 at 22K. I was thinking along the lines of a Mazda2 but make it into a van, a little taller and a little longer.

Burrito de EJ25 > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 05/18/2014 at 16:15

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I really wish there was a market for these things because I'd love one.

It would be the perfect commute car. I, like a bunch of Americans, drive alone to work. I don't need my WRX's 260 horse power and all that space while I'm sitting in traffic for an hour a day.

One of these with a great stereo system and a good HVAC system and I'm golden. Throw in an economical CVT mated to a tiny turbo diesel.

Sad to say that there isn't a market for these cute little guys.

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 05/18/2014 at 16:16

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Large wagons

jkm7680 > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 05/18/2014 at 16:16

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http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mazda-Mazd…

There just aren't enough people who are in the market for a compact, for storing children.

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > George Costanza 05/18/2014 at 16:16

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people buy compact cars why would they not buy compact vans? it would essentially be a more practical yet still frugal alternative to a Ford Fiesta or similar

Blondude > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 05/18/2014 at 16:17

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Yussss!

We can even Americanize them!

Aya, Almost Has A Cosmo With Toyota Engine Owned by a BMW. > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 05/18/2014 at 16:18

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We got that Wagon R in Indonesia. Really tiny.

And there's a news saying that IDM (Indonesian Domestic Market, hell yeah) Wagon R will get an extra row of seat, and make it 7-seater.

In here the wagon R cost somewhere arround 8000-9000bucks, depending on the trim and while they're nice and cute, but it's abit crmped there.

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > IDROVEAPICKUPTRUCK 05/18/2014 at 16:19

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I agree but at least the midsized pickups are comming. we have to start somewhere I'm confident the small pickups will comeback eventually once they see the demands for the new colorado/canyon. they will look at even smaller trucks.

George Costanza > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 05/18/2014 at 16:19

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But people who aren't enthusiasts want something "trendy". The Fiesta is "trendy", golf is "trendy". They have been in the US/Canada for a while. But these cars, however similar are have not been here. The Kia Soul is the current boxy car available and sliding doors won't improve it.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 05/18/2014 at 16:21

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IT'S SO CUTE I'M GUNNA DIE

IDROVEAPICKUPTRUCK > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 05/18/2014 at 16:23

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The problem is that the Colorado/Canyon cost almost as much as a Silverado 1500. 3 years ago I was planning on buying a Colorado but with the incentives they were offering on the Silverado it was only like $2k more to go full size, and the last gen Colorado was terrible so I got the Silverado. Now with the new Colorado growing the price gap will probably be even narrower. As much as I want it to be I'm not convinced the Colorado is going to be the success everyone thinks it will be.

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > Burrito de EJ25 05/18/2014 at 16:24

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I'm with you 100% a lot of people fail to see the point I'm trying to make but it looks like you are right there with me. you could still have your big family car and have one of these for commuting and you could take the seats out for carrying bulkier stuff or you could still use it to drop your kids off at daycare but do the other 90% of your commute in these rather than a Chevy Suburban.

dogisbadob > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 05/18/2014 at 16:26

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Small 4-cylinder luxury cars!

I love the Infiniti G20, and I wish something like that was around now. Honda needs to rebadge the European Civic hatchback as the Acura Integra and sell it over here, including the Type-R and diesel versions. The ILX is too half-assed, and they need to offer the R20 with a 6-speed manual. Starting price would be around 20k for most of them.

We also need the A-class hatchback, A1 and A3 hatchbacks, 1-series 4-door hatch, and a non-hybrid Lexus CT.

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > Aya, Almost Has A Cosmo With Toyota Engine Owned by a BMW. 05/18/2014 at 16:26

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for $9000 grand I would buy one for commuting. it would be fantastic, cramped yes but cheap and frugal.

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > Blondude 05/18/2014 at 16:28

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The AZ-1 is by far the best kei car ever made.

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > dogisbadob 05/18/2014 at 16:33

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I agree I always liked the look of the Lexus CT but was always turned off by the prius drivetrain to think even if the only but the 2.5L of the camry in it it would be way better and would probably be $2000-$3000 cheaper.

Aya, Almost Has A Cosmo With Toyota Engine Owned by a BMW. > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 05/18/2014 at 16:35

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Yeah. Plus IDM version got 1 liter for moar powar.

But i think alongside kei car, you'll need Fancy JDM Minivan, like Honda Stepwgn or Nissan Elgrand or Toyota Vellfire. And don't forget the Crown.

dogisbadob > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 05/18/2014 at 16:37

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I'd like to see an entry level 1.6-1.8L in it for the low 20s. Oh, and a manual transmission of course.

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > Aya, Almost Has A Cosmo With Toyota Engine Owned by a BMW. 05/18/2014 at 16:41

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yes we absolutely need the crown I would even be happy with that mark X you reviewed

Aaron James > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 05/18/2014 at 16:47

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They'd never pass NHTSA Crash standards, by the time you engineered it to comply it would be 50% bigger, twice the weight and need a much bigger engine to have performance acceptable for the US market.

GhostZ > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 05/18/2014 at 16:58

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Lightweight, 2-door RWD sedan-based cars. Mostly because they were the only ones who made them until the 80s (when Japan took over) and then Japan stopped making them. The Dodge Dart, AE86, Chevy Malibu, Ford Falcon, and others were good examples.

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > dogisbadob 05/18/2014 at 17:44

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a luxury car in the low 20's would sell pretty damn good I would imagine

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > GhostZ 05/18/2014 at 17:46

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I'm still waiting for 4 door lightweight rwd sedan.(I need the 2 extra doors) I would love a 4dr FR-S if it existed.

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > Aaron James 05/18/2014 at 17:48

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Why couldn't you have something based off of the nissan versa or ford fiesta those pass the crash test so I can't see a taller,longer nissan versa not passing. I agree that the kei cars would probably not cut it over here but what about something based of a sub-compact or compact?

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > AM3R 05/18/2014 at 17:48

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A million times yes.

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 05/18/2014 at 17:50

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although I agree with you 100% I think mid sized wagons would be more feasible. we had large wagons recently and they did not sell.

davedave1111 > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 05/18/2014 at 18:08

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Kei cars aren't only sold in Japan, although that's where the Kei regulations are from. You get the odd breakout that sells in Europe or Asia as well.

The thing with Keis is that mostly they're very compromised towards the Japanese regs, and so not terribly good cars anywhere you don't have to stick to those rules. In other markets, a better set of compromises can be made to produce a better small car.

jdrgoat - Ponticrack? > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 05/18/2014 at 18:16

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Kei car? Van? Nope, the kei car that I want is not a van.

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 05/18/2014 at 18:40

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True. Although the build quality in that particular large wagon was crap. I still want one, but every tangible surface in that interior was made from the cheapest plastic available.

Aaron James > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 05/18/2014 at 18:54

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Then it's not a Kei car anymore. That's doing exactly as I described. Bigger, heavier, larger engines. That's what it would take to pass regulations. Sure it could be done but they'd be the size of minivans and we already have minivans and hatchbacks. I love Kei cars too. I want to collect them all but a us version would lose all the appeal of the real Kei.

Burrito de EJ25 > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 05/18/2014 at 19:06

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Too right. Two car families and it's usually two SUVs or an SUV and a full size sedan.

My sister is in the process of getting her license and getting her own car. My parents would be happy if she got a sedan, because what if? What if she needs five seats and a full trunk? 99.9% of the time she won't. She's going to burn the extra fuel for that .1%? It's ridiculous.

It's the same argument I made in regards to my dad's Chevrolet Avalanche. They argue that they sometimes need a truck. I can count on my fingers the number of times they actually needed a truck's utility in the past 3 years. That thing drinks around $200 in fuel a month.

This mentality is shared by most of the American car buying public. It's a cultural problem.

GhostZ > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 05/18/2014 at 19:38

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The BMW 1 Series 5-door is the closest, being a RWD 4-door hatch. I qualify 'light weight' nowadays as anything under 3300lbs or so, though in the 80s, 2700 was more the mark, and in the 60s, anything under 3500.

Unfortunately, it's MSRP exceeds 35k easily too.

Honestly, they just don't build new cars for people like me.

DarrenMR > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 05/18/2014 at 19:56

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I would buy a Kei car if they were available here.

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > Burrito de EJ25 05/18/2014 at 21:28

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yeah your old man is the same as mine. you would be way better off to have a frugal car for everyday and then rent a truck when you need one or pay for delivery. you would save at least $10000 in initial purchase price and on top of that you would save $2000-$3000 of fuel per year in the process.

I don't know makes sense to me?

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > GhostZ 05/18/2014 at 21:30

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and we don't even get the 1 series hatch in the first place. a target price of $25000 would be way better.

cabarne4 > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 05/19/2014 at 23:08

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I know I'm a bit late to the party, but a good selection of utility vans. Preferably cab-over.

When my family went on a trip to Jamaica, a friend of my uncle's drove us around the island in his HiAce van. I literally fell in love with that thing. Mid engine, RWD. Simple diesel engine mated to a manual transmission. Comfortably sat FIFTEEN people in it's configuration.

While the American body-on-frame vans (E-series, Ram van) are being replaced with the likes of the Fiat thing, the Ford Transit (hopefully we'll get the full sized one soon), and the Dodge / Mercedes Sprinter, I'd love to see these smaller vans over here for utilitarian use.

Delivery vans, ambulances, fire support vehicles, police, buses, tourist companies, large families, small campers... so many possibilities.

Luc - The Acadian Oppo > cabarne4 05/19/2014 at 23:47

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I love cab over vans. I have spent a lot of time in the Philippines and they are everywhere and so damn perfect. The Hiace was the van of choice for shuttle drivers. For personal use most people where driving the Suzuki Carry.

It's just so damn practical. I can't think of any thing else that would be this useful. altho it's not really great at anything, it is good at everything. good on gas,available with either RWD or 4WD,MANUAL!,can haul passengers,can haul cargo it can pretty much do it all (except maybe speeding with it's 660cc inline 3cyl).

cabarne4 > Luc - The Acadian Oppo 05/20/2014 at 15:44

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My point exactly! The Hiace is more "American" sized, and can actually reach freeway speeds — but I love the Suzuki Carry (and other small vans). That thing is like half the size of the Hiace, but pretty much does all the jobs, and can fit just about everywhere around crowded areas.